Should all ex-"terrorists" be tarred with the same brush?

macbee48 · 10th February 2008, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizi

Maybe the action of understanding, investment and support should be implemented before these "Ponds" develop,would you say that Nelson Mandella or McGuiness & Adams were previously "Pond Life", when you consider the title of
Terrorists and Murderers was bestowed upon them, considering the alledged Murders and Bombings they were reported to have had a hand in,look at what they achieved by dialogue,

I can't believe that you are equating McGuiness and Adams with Nelson Mandela. They are 2 of the biggest scumbags ever to grace the face of this earth.

Just what did they achieve by dialogue? Help to bring an end to a conflict that they helped to start and prolong? How many dead? 2000? 3000? They're real heroes.

I must pass your opinion of those 2 to my cousin's husband. He still has the scars caused by flying plate glass during an IRA bombing in Belfast.

kizi · 10th February 2008, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbee48

I can't believe that you are equating McGuiness and Adams with Nelson Mandela. They are 2 of the biggest scumbags ever to grace the face of this earth.

Just what did they achieve by dialogue? Help to bring an end to a conflict that they helped to start and prolong? How many dead? 2000? 3000? They're real heroes.

I must pass your opinion of those 2 to my cousin's husband. He still has the scars caused by flying plate glass during an IRA bombing in Belfast.

If you study what was said in my post ,you will or should note that what I said was,if you consider that Mandela,McGuiness & Adams were intially declared to be Terrorists,would you then class them as "Pond Life",I also ask for what they had achieved by dialogue and understanding to be considered,yes McGuiness and Adams did help to bring about an end to the conflict in Ireland, by their agreeing to sit down and talk it ended a conflict that could still be going on today,the wounds possibly will never heal that this conflict brought about,but what must not be forgotten they also had victims in the ranks of their people,Catholic civilians and IRA members,everyone suffered in that conflict Catholics and Protestants,I seem to recall the organisations called UVF and Red Hand of Ulster,and let us not forget the Shankhill Butchers,no both sides were guilty of atrocities,if we look back into history we will see that the UVF declared war on the IRA on 21st May 1966,which brought about the escalation in the conflict as we now refer to it,this has gone right off Topic so I will leave it there.

macbee48 · 10th February 2008, 22:57

Off topic yes. But not something which I am willing to let go. If the mods want to move this to it's own thread then I will be happy to continue there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizi

If you study what was said in my post ,you will or should note that what I said was,if you consider that Mandela,McGuiness & Adams were intially declared to be Terrorists,would you then class them as "Pond Life",

McGuiness and Adams? Absolutely! Murdering scumbags.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizi

I also ask for what they had achieved by dialogue and understanding to be considered,yes McGuiness and Adams did help to bring about an end to the conflict in Ireland, by their agreeing to sit down and talk it ended a conflict that could still be going on today,

Which they and others like them started and prolonged for 30 years. Using your logic, if someone punches you in the face repeatedly, are you supposed to be grateful to him when he stops?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizi

the wounds possibly will never heal that this conflict brought about,but what must not be forgotten they also had victims in the ranks of their people,Catholic civilians and IRA members,everyone suffered in that conflict Catholics and Protestants,I seem to recall the organisations called UVF and Red Hand of Ulster,and let us not forget the Shankhill Butchers,no both sides were guilty of atrocities,if we look back into history we will see that the UVF declared war on the IRA on 21st May 1966,which brought about the escalation the conflict as we now know it,this has gone right off Topic so I will leave it there.

So I suppose that makes what they did alright then? There are murdering scumbags on both sides here. Agreed. But both sides attempt to divert attention from their wrong doings by pointing to what the others have done. You are employing the same technique.

kizi · 11th February 2008, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbee48

Off topic yes. But not something which I am willing to let go. If the mods want to move this to it's own thread then I will be happy to continue there.

McGuiness and Adams? Absolutely! Murdering scumbags.

Which they and others like them started and prolonged for 30 years. Using your logic, if someone punches you in the face repeatedly, are you supposed to be grateful to him when he stops?

So I suppose that makes what they did alright then? There are murdering scumbags on both sides here. Agreed. But both sides attempt to divert attention from their wrong doings by pointing to what the others have done. You are employing the same technique.

I will continue this anywhere you like my friend,I will say it again,read and discern what is being said in the post,I did not at any stage of the post call them heroes,those words came from you,as far as these people prolonging the conflict for 30 Years,well that is up for debate,yes both sides did try to divert attention from their wrong doings,going back to your comments of being punched in the face for 30 years,both sides were punch in the face for 30 Years,also as far as "Absolutely Murdering Scumbags" remember The Shankhill Butchers and the Mcgurks Bar bombing 15 innocent civilians taken out in one hit!!. nice piece of work those "Absolutely Murdering Scumbags" carried out. I think it would be wise to move out of that Glass House you appear to be talking from.

Janet · 11th February 2008, 10:46

I don't see anyone talking from a glass house, and as a new member, kizi, you will probably find it easier to interpret established members' posts when you've been here a little longer.

For the sake of all new members, too, I would again draw everyone's attention to the rules of the forum in regard to respect for others' opinions, and politeness in general in replies ... and not allowing arguments to get personal.

ollyvee · 11th February 2008, 11:50

Please,please don't let this get nasty,when I made the original thread I did not wish for any bad feeling among forum members.We each have our own opinions on all sorts of topics,but when things get personal its time to butt out.

MAZOKA · 11th February 2008, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janet

I don't see anyone talking from a glass house, and as a new member, kizi, you will probably find it easier to interpret established members' posts when you've been here a little longer.

For the sake of all new members, too, I would again draw everyone's attention to the rules of the forum in regard to respect for others' opinions, and politeness in general in replies ... and not allowing arguments to get personal.

Janet,concerning kizi and his posts,I dont see where he has lacked in politeness and respect,I can see his point of Dialogue being a good thing,especially in the Irish conflict,I believe that with his comment of "Glass Houses"he was in my opinion asking Macbee 48 to consider from what position he was making references that Gerry Adams & Martin McGuiness were "Absolutely Murdering Scumbags"when there were these same type of people on the other side,Heroes was a word brought into the equation by Macbee 48 not kizi,I believe kizi is right in the point made of reaching a peaceful conclussion through "Dialogue",also just because one of the postees is an "Established Member"did not call for what could be interpreted as a veiled insinution to the Newbie Member that they need to temper there posts,discering the interpretation of a Post, wether Establish Member or Newbie Member is a two way street, also to say that he may find it easier to interpret "Established Members Posts" when he has been here a little longer,if I was kizi I would be highly insulted by that remark, do we serve an Apprenticeship on the Forum?,I witnessed only a strong debate with strong opinions being made from both sides,but I do feel that Macbee48 is not seeing the point of "Dialogue" mention in kizi's posts.
Maybe this could be a pointer in support of an "Adult Section".

ollyvee · 11th February 2008, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAZOKA

Janet,concerning kizi and his posts,I dont see where he has lacked in politeness and respect,I can see his point of Dialogue being a good thing,especially in the Irish conflict,I believe that with his comment of "Glass Houses"he was in my opinion asking Macbee 48 to consider from what position he was making references that Gerry Adams & Martin McGuiness were "Absolutely Murdering Scumbags"when there were these same type of people on the other side,Heroes was a word brought into the equation by Macbee 48 not kizi,I believe kizi is right in the point made of reaching a peaceful conclussion through "Dialogue",also just because one of the postees is an "Established Member"did not call for what could be interpreted as a veiled insinution to the Newbie Member that they need to temper there posts,discering the interpretation of a Post, wether Establish Member or Newbie Member is a two way street, also to say that he may find it easier to interpret "Established Members Posts" when he has been here a little longer,if I was kizi I would be highly insulted by that remark, do we serve an Apprenticeship on the Forum?,I witnessed only a strong debate with strong opinions being made from both sides,but I do feel that Macbee48 is not seeing the point of "Dialogue" mention in kizi's posts.
Maybe this could be a pointer in support of an "Adult Section".

Last sentence I completely agree.This thread is NOT about the situation in Ireland or even Outer Mongolia,it is about unemployed people claiming benefits and should they be made to work for them.I have always respected Macbees opinions and I do sympathise to some extent with his feelings but would you all stick to the thread please,at this rate it will be pistols at dawn

If this goes to the adult thread I will not be following it as I do not have a password and do not want one.

MAZOKA · 11th February 2008, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollyvee

Last sentence I completely agree.This thread is NOT about the situation in Ireland or even Outer Mongolia,it is about unemployed people claiming benefits and should they be made to work for them.I have always respected Macbees opinions and I do sympathise to some extent with his feelings but would you all stick to the thread please,at this rate it will be pistols at dawn

If this goes to the adult thread I will not be following it as I do not have a password and do not want one.

Yes to what you have stated,but Ollyvee I am in no way trying to get the last word on this matter,but I did feel that kizi was being treated...well let us say in not a very welcoming way to the Forum,for a Newbie Member he probably felt he had entered into a Whirlwind because of his post being misinterpreted..that said its back to the original thread.

ollyvee · 11th February 2008, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAZOKA

Yes to what you have stated,but Ollyvee I am in no way trying to get the last word on this matter,but I did feel that kizi was being treated...well let us say in not a very welcoming way to the Forum,for a Newbie Member he probably felt he had entered into a Whirlwind because of his post being misinterpreted..that said its back to the original thread.

If he had stuck to the original thread we would'nt have had a problem,I am the last person to say about off topic but I am always doing it.....see what I mean