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 | |  19th December 2007, 20:31 | #1 (permalink) | | Super Tenerifian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Poole Gender:  Posts: 3,186 My Mood:  | Did Tenerife Forum members learn Latin at school?
Oh, the drag of learning to sing Adeste Fideles!!! Yet browsing through Christmas music videos, I came across a few versions of this and enjoyed it. I'm puzzled about pronunciation though. We were taught that V in Latin was always pronounced W, so why are classical choirs, Il Divo and others pronouncing V in Venite, videte etc?  __________________
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Sal |  |  | | 19th December 2007, 20:40 | #2 (permalink) | | more fool you Join Date: Jun 2006 Gender:  Posts: 2,210 | Sorry cannot help, latin was not an option in comprehensive schools. It is supposed to be useful in learning other languages and of course in botany but is it really much use?? __________________
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| | | | | 19th December 2007, 20:42 | #3 (permalink) | | Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tenerife Gender: Posts: 9,580 | Quote: | Originally Posted by Rolzysmum We were taught that V in Latin was always pronounced W, so why are classical choirs, Il Divo and others pronouncing V in Venite, videte etc | The classical pronunciation for V is W. This dates to a time when people really knew Latin, though. It should tell you everything that when a junior colleague was taking the class of another colleague, she asked him how he himself pronounced it ... what would the students be used to? Oh the classical pronunciation, he said. What's that, she said. This was a junior lecturer, fresh out of her PhD.  Education ain't what it used to be.  Quote: | Originally Posted by mac It is supposed to be useful in learning other languages and of course in botany but is it really much use?? | mac! It's only the root of all Romance languages, i.e. (among others) French, Italian, Portuguese, Rhaeto-Romanian (the fourth language of Switzerland, popularly known as Romansch), and of course Spanish! Of course it's useful, not just to help learning other modern languages, but also for vocabulary and language structure (i.e. grammar!) ... which is rather useful for English, too, given that about half the language comes from Latin! 
Last edited by Janet; 19th December 2007 at 21:40. | | | | | 19th December 2007, 21:02 | #4 (permalink) | | Super Tenerifian Join Date: Nov 2007 Gender: Posts: 946 | Quote: Originally Posted by Janet  The classical pronunciation for V is W. This dates to a time when people really knew Of course it's useful, not just to help learning other modern languages, but also for vocabulary and language structure (i.e. grammar!) ... which is rather useful for English, too, given that about half the language comes from Latin! | Well not quite. English language structure is significanly different. The fundamental melding of languages took place from the Roman occupation onwards. Latin was absorbed but using the celtic structures. Hence, the higledy pigledy grammatic rules we have today. __________________
I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me. [Dave Barry (1947 - )] | | | | | 19th December 2007, 21:07 | #5 (permalink) | | Super Tenerifian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Poole Gender: Posts: 3,186 My Mood: | Quote: Originally Posted by Albatros Well not quite.
English language structure is significanly different. The fundamental melding of languages took place from the Roman occupation onwards. Latin was absorbed but using the celtic structures. Hence, the higledy pigledy grammatic rules we have today. | Excuse me!!!! I'm not that old. I did learn Latin after the Roman occupation!!! __________________
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Sal | | | | | The Following User Says Thank You to Rolzysmum For This Useful Post: | | | 19th December 2007, 21:08 | #6 (permalink) | | The Brain Join Date: Aug 2007 Gender: Posts: 1,479 | Quote: Originally Posted by Rolzysmum We were taught that V in Latin was always pronounced W, so why are classical choirs, Il Divo and others pronouncing V in Venite, videte etc? | Because they got it wrong. Seriously, though, Classical Latin is W, (we know this because of translations of Latin V into Greek are always OU which is their best approach to W) but I think medieval Latin shifted towards a V. Quote: Originally Posted by Albatros Well not quite.
English language structure is significanly different. The fundamental melding of languages took place from the Roman occupation onwards. Latin was absorbed but using the celtic structures. Hence, the higledy pigledy grammatic rules we have today. | No - The basic structure of English is certainly Germanic. Latin vocabulary was absorbed into Anglo-Saxon, hence English is classified as a West Germanic language. Celtic languages are an entirely different branch of Indo-European languages, and had very little influence on the grammar of Germanic languages (although some German vocabulary connected with bureaucracy is taken from Celtic). The dual roots of English from Anglo-Saxon and Latin can be seen in fossils such as Last Will and Testament. Here, both the Anglo-saxon word Will and the Latin word Testament (via the Normans) are used so that everybody understood the expression.
Last edited by Janet; 19th December 2007 at 21:40. | | | | | 19th December 2007, 21:26 | #7 (permalink) | | Super Tenerifian Join Date: Nov 2007 Gender: Posts: 946 | Sorry. You are absolutely correct. I stated Celtic when I meant Germanic. I was more keen to get over the point about origin of the structure.
Have I learn nothing in all my years?
School report .... "Must not rush into answering over enthusiastically" __________________
I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me. [Dave Barry (1947 - )] | | | | | The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Albatros For This Useful Post: | | | 19th December 2007, 21:43 | #8 (permalink) | | Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tenerife Gender: Posts: 9,580 | And my comment about Latin's contribution to English was concerned with vocabulary. It's usefulness to English lies in its grammar ... not because it forms the basis of English grammar, but because it helps people to understand the basic principles of how Indo-European languages work! Or at least it used to ... | | | | | 19th December 2007, 21:49 | #9 (permalink) | | Super Tenerifian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Adeje Gender: Posts: 1,495 My Mood:  | Yes, I had Latin classes at school ... at one stage (aged 14) I was studying 5 languages - English, Irish, French, Latin & German. |  | | | 19th December 2007, 21:50 | #10 (permalink) | | Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tenerife Gender: Posts: 6,459 | You are kidding right? In Geordieland English was our second language and a struggle  | | | | | Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |  Posting Rules | You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
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